Imagine you are at the edge of the sea on a day when it is difficult to say where the land ends and the sea begins and where the sea ends and the sky begins. Sea kayaking lets you explore these and your own boundaries and broadens your horizons. Sea kayaking is the new mountaineering.
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Thursday, April 30, 2015
Flat Earth Kayak Sails Tradewind 0.8 preview.
A very exciting parcel arrived from Australia this week. It contained the Flat Earth Kayak Sails new Trade Wind 80 sail in Grand Prix cloth. The Trade Wind line will gradually replace the current Code Zero line.
I was in Kari-tek, the European distributor and mast/fitting kit supplier, about two weeks ago. Geoff told me that he had just taken a delivery of 50 Code Zero sails but had sold them all already! Apparently P&H had taken delivery of a further 40 sails and Geoff had to supply masts for them very quickly, so he reckons they have all sold too.
When Mick MacRobb of Flat Earth Kayak Sails announced the Trade Wind Series he said "They are being released properly mid May in Scotland." How honoured are we in Scotland? I guess this just goes to show how popular kayak paddle sailing has become in the northern hemisphere, especially with the Flat Earth Kayak Sail. The other thing is that the sails look great against a Scottish mountain backdrop as...
...the front cover of the forthcoming issue of Ocean Paddler very clearly shows!
Anyway back to the sail. the Trade Wind 80 is 0.8sqm in area, which is the most popular size as it has the widest wind range. It has a slightly shorter luff and has more sail area in the roach (top) than previous generations of the FEKS.
The Grand Prix material is a mylar/scrim/mylar trilaminate. The scrim is made up of carbon and kevlar yarns so it is very resistant to stretching or tearing. This type of trilaminate material is very tough and resistant to UV (not a particular problem in Scotland though I did develop a melonoma!) This type of cloth has been long used on windsurfer wave sails and they take a real thrashing. The previous Code Zero cloth is great when new. It is a thin mylar/dacron bilaminate but it tends to soften with repeat folding and this may be why the leach of some older Code Zero sails "motors" in stronger winds. I suspect this will not be an issue with the Grand Prix cloth. It is partially see through. There is no window option but recent Code Zero 0.8 and all P&H branded Code Zero sails had dropped the window anyway. If you use the standard mast, the window only gave a view of the sky anyway.
This shows the new Trade Wind red on top of the previous Code Zero blue. As you can see the luff is shorter and some of the mast foot has been cut away and the area...
...moved up to the roach of the sail. This shows the new Trade Wind red beneath the previous Code Zero blue.
The sail has less twist than previous generations of flat Earth sails particularly the original all dacron ones. This shows the sail in the run position in a F4 breeze. The boom needs to be kept sheeted in a bit to prevent the roach of the sail moving forward of the mast and spilling wind. But when a gust hits this twist increases and spills wind. The previous generations of the FEKS needed the boom sheeted in more. The new sail is therefore a bit more unforgiving than the original sails but will retain more power before auto spilling the wind.
This is the Trade Wind 80 sheeted in a close reach position. The sail has been expertly cut with almost no trace of a wrinkle. I think the fullness of the sail looks a litter further back than the previous Code Zero which will make it a little more powerful for its size especially on a broad reach.
As you can see the boom sits higher on the standard mast. You could cut the mast top down and lower the sail but I am not going to do that. I like the sail up higher as the wind gets slower and more turbulent the closer down it is to the surface of the sea. I want the sail to catch the clear stronger air higher up.
Day 1
I wasted no time in getting it out onto the water on my P&H Delphin. The wind was very gusty offshore in a sheltered bay from F2 to the bottom of F5. The sea was flat. The sail having lest twist is a little less forgiving when you launch on a broad reach than the original all dacron version. Code Zero users will probably not notice much difference. It goes up with a satisfying wumph! The gusty winds were a good test for me (a relatively experienced paddle sailor) to see how a newcomer might find the sail in steadier conditions. Well it was no trouble at all. I liked everything about it, tacking upwind, on a reach running and gybing. There were no scary moments even in the most sudden gusts. Even in the strongest gusts there was not a hint of the leech "motoring".
I was on my own so it was not possible to do a side by side comparison with the previous Code Zero sail. However, I did like what Mick has called the "slightly more aggressive" nature of the sail. I felt more of the gust was being transformed into forward drive rather than spilling out off the roach as the sail twisted. This is steady evolution, it certainly won't make your Code Zero sail redundant. However, if you have one of the original all dacron (or dacron with mylar reinforcement on the leech) Flat Earth sails you will notice a difference.
Day 2
This day had a steadier wind though it was still offshore. It was about F3 inside the islands and F4 outside the islands. I decided to go round the Isles of Fleet which would test the sail on a number of sailing angles. One thing to note here is that I had the sail up and pulling for the whole of this route despite my course being closer to the wind than a beam reach in several places. Who says you cannot paddle sail upwind?
It was a nice beam reach out and I was able to study the cut of the sail. I am sure that the deepest part of the draught of the sail has moved a bit further back. The head is also flatter than previous generations of the sail. As a windsurfer I have always liked using sails with a deep belly a flat head and a roach that twists off in gusts for their wide, controllable wind range. As a sea kayaker I like this style even more. I think Mick has really nailed it with this particular cut!
I met a head wind through the narrow channel which separates Barlocco Isle from the mainland and had to sheet in to a beat. This Grand Prix sail material is stiffer than the original dacron material and it is a little more difficult to judge how high to the wind you can paddle sail without luffing the sail. The softer dacron sails definitely showed the leading edge backwind at an earlier stage. I was not bothered by this but if beginners are particularly concerned about beating performance (rather than just blasting about having fun) they could thread a wool tell tale through the luff of the sail about half way up and in front of the batten. The tell tale should be horizontal sailing close as possible to the wind but if you point too high into the wind it will start to move up.
In open water out beyond the islands, the sail felt really great on a broad reach. I was not paddling taking these photos but when I was paddling I was catching the small waves. (These photos were taken with a 17mm ultra wide angle lens using a full frame DSLR, so the lens makes everything look much smaller!)
On the way home it was a close reach into the increasingly gusty bay.
Even the worst of cat's paws at the head of the bay did not unsettle the sail, the boat or myself.
Day 3
On my third day out with the Trade Wind 80 kayak sail I got the chance to try it out on rougher water. The wind was F4-F5 onshore against a big spring ebb tide. I like the way the sail is full low down and gradually flattens off as you move up to the head, The head does not twist off so much as the old dacron sails when a gust hits going upwind but this does not result any any feeling of instability.
As I tried to sail as close to the wind as possible on the way out I noticed that the stiff Grand Prix material definitely made it more difficult to see how close to sail to the wind as the luff did not back wind as easily as the lighter cloth in the current Code Zero 80 sail.
However, this did not seem to have much effect on upwind performance as you can see by the tacking angle of the tack on the left of this GPS track. The kayak was a relatively short P&H Delphin 155 with no forward fin. I thought the upwind performance was pretty remarkable.
I do like the fact that the area of the sail now sits a bit higher than the current sail. In waves the air flow is very disturbed as it approaches the surface so the new sail is meeting cleaner air. One thing /I did notice about the new sail is I find it easier to control in stronger winds as it feels much more stable than the previous dacron versions of the sail. The dacron sails distort more and the centre of effort is not so stable and moves about the sail. So although they may be softer and more forgiving you never really know where you are with them. I think the Trade Wind sail's very solid feel is due to its centre of effort being much more static. Basically I like the feel of Trade Wind a very great deal when going upwind.
Now the fun started. It was a blast going downwind. Note that the well powered up sail has not a hint of a wrinkle (you might see a wrinkle or two in lighter winds).
The sail gave me the power to overtake the wave in front then...
...climb over it and chase the next wave in front. The GPS showed my maximum speed hit 22.9km/hr and I was frequently hitting over 20km/hr when on the plane. Again the cut and heavier cloth give the Trade Wind 80 sail a very stable feel downwind. When you drop off the plane you slow down and the apparent wind increases. In the old dacron sails the leech would suddenly twist off spilling wind but moving the centre of effort and making the sail feel quite unstable. This sail continues to pull hard when you decelerate but in now way does this feel unstable. Again I really like the feel of the Trade Wind 80 when paddle sailing downwind. My one reservation for someone upgrading from a dacron sail is that undoubtedly the stays will be transmitting more force to the hull, especially if you are loaded with expedition gear. You may wish to reconsider your existing stay anchors.
This is my new Cetus MV, note that I have two side stays and two back stays. All four stay anchors are bolted through the kayak's seam, which is one of the strongest parts.
Day 4.
At last, a decent breeze. At sea level, my hand held anemometer was averaging 16 knots but gusting to 21 knots so this was a good F4 gusting into F5. I first paddled into the wind to Murray's Isles once there I then had a beat/close reach to get round Barlocco Isle. I used the forward fin on the Aries 155 on this leg. Then there was a run to the beach below Bar Hill where I stopped to wait for the ebb tide to build up. As the ebb increased so did the wind against tide waves and you can see where I bore off between Barlocco and Ardwall Isles to catch some particularly good sets. Conditions off both Carrick point and Craigmore Point were excellent on a broad reach due to the increased tide round the points. Then I was onto a beam reach back to start.
The Tradewind 80 holds its shape really well in the gusts. The whole sail is much stiffer than previous generations of the sail. It still exhausts wind from the roach of the sail in the worst of gusts but it does so in a more controlled manner that the older sails, which would suddenly spill wind and the centre of effort would move, making you feel very wobbly. The defining characteristic of the Trade Wind 80 is a very stable centre of effort. This makes paddle sailing at the top of your ability a joy!
Despite the lively conditions the sail felt absolutely rock solid. I never felt the remotest inclination to spill wind or take it down.
I had several long planing runs when my speed hit 20km/hr and when I was not not quite planing I was doing 10km/hr. Considering this was against the out going tide of about 4km/hr, these were most satisfactory speeds. If I had taken the sail down I am sure I would have found the conditions somewhat uncomfortable.
Conclusion
I cannot think of a better expedition sail for paddle sailing in all weathers, summer and winter. If you are new to paddle sailing do not be put off by its high tech appearance, it is actually very easy to handle. If you enjoy paddle sailing with one of the earlier dacron FEKS then this would make a significant and noticeable upgrade. You could always sell your old dacron sail to a newcomer to paddle sailing who might not yet be ready to invest in a new sail. If you have a Code Zero or P&H FEKS, the incremental improvement is probably not worth an upgrade at this time, unless you just MUST have all the latest kit!
In Europe, the FEKS should be available from Kari-Tek by Mid May. Price in the first batch will be the same as the outgoing Code Zero £198 (exc. mast and fittings) then subsequent deliveries will be £218. If you are in the Southern Hemisphere keep an eye on the Expedition Kayaks web site as they are one of the main distributors in the sails' native Australia.
Disclaimer, this is a free loan sail that remains the property of Flat Earth Sails, the only cost was the postage from Australia. I have however, bought three other FEKS sails at full price. I have no financial interest in FEKS. Although I have never met Mick in person, I consider him a friend.
Facebook comments.
In this blog's comments section, Mike suggested that I post some of the comments made in Facebook groups here. So here they are:
Brackenber CottageSaving my pennies. Im staggered that so many have been sold - Ive still yet to see anyone else on the water with one but everyone that sees ours wants one!
Douglas WilcoxMost of our group who have sails were neither sailors or windsurfers and were completely new to any form of sailing, all picked it up on the first day and all are now addicts!
Paul EdmondsonI wouldnt go on a trip without one. Great sailing. Once youve tried it, you wont look back
Paul EdmondsonIt is worth it. We have had ours now for over 2 years, and have kayaked and sailed miles around Scotland, the Lake District and the Solway coast line. They have 'saved' us on at They have 'saved' us on at least 2 occasions, and made difficult journeys possible on others. Well worth the investment. We have sailed around Bute, crossed to Eigg and Arran, sailed around Walney and crossed Morecambe Bay - all with Flat Earth Sails. Brilliant experiences. Buy it!!
Wayne Busby80. I fitted a Code Zero to my Delphin, along with a rudder retrofit. It turns paddling down-wind with a following sea into a whole new experience...great fun! The best bit is that both rudder and sail are removable, making the boat multi-functional depending on weather , conditions and what I want to do . Total cost at the time, about £300 and I fitted it all myself.
Gerris LacustrisI was very skeptical about kayak sailing but at a recent canoe sailing meet a friend brought a kayak which had a FE sail already fitted - although he had never tried it. After working out that I needed to set the sail and leave it, rather than keep playing the sheet as I would in a sailing boat, I was well away. Sailing was OK but paddle sailing was amazing, even upwind! I could really see myself using one. The new version looks great and I think that one will soon be flying from my foredeck.
Douglas WilcoxNever really felt the need for a rudder myself. They are OK downwind but I prefer using the paddle and edging for a quicker response. However, with a rudder fitted it makes beating tricky. I had a rudder on the Delphin but have now removed it and also ...See More
Douglas WilcoxGosh Paul I am not sure why but I have found the complete opposite to your own experience. I find in stronger winds and rougher water that except for down wind, control with the rudder is less effective than with a skeg for all round paddle sailing.
Going upwind, I find the lee cocking with the rudder down gets worse as the wind increases. In this photo we are close reaching in a F4/5. I am in a Taran 16 with rudder down and Phil is in a Quest with a skeg a little way down. I just could not keep up because of strong lee cocking (the Taran 16 is generally much faster than the Quest especially downwind). The only way I could stop the leecocking was to lift the rudder and correct my course with paddle strokes and edging which was more tiring than Phil who was paddling straight with just a touch of skeg. A friend who bought and paddle sails a Taran 16 has retrofitted a skeg and he uses the rudder downwind and the skeg from broad/beam reaching round to beating.
The Cetus with a rudder lee cocked more badly than the Taran, so it is not just an issue with the Taran.
On the Solway (on a mixed sheltered/exposed route round the Islands of Fleet which required all points of sailing) we sailed two Cetuses back to back for a week, one with a rudder only, one with a skeg only. Each sail was mounted in the same position. Regardless who paddle sailed it, the skeg boat always pulled ahead upwind and was first round the islands, whenever the wind was F3/4 or above.
Whatever, paddle sailing is a whole heap of fun whether you have a skeg or a rudder. My friend Tony learned (and mastered) paddle sailing in an Alaw Bach without a skeg or a rudder!
Paul EdmondsonMay be its a confidence thing. We"ve been caught out a number of times with wind picking up to force 5+. On one occasion we had to raft up and sail in F6/7. Too strong for the sailS - bending the mast slightly. The rudder ensuredwe were able to concentrate on the sailing and not the direction!
This also happened recently while crossing from Wee Cumbrai to the mainland and last year when kayaking / sailing round Walney. Steering the kayak was so much easier on each occasion with a rudder.
Paul Edmondsonwe now have caribiners permanently on our kayaks to enable us to raft up if the weather takes a turn for the worse. Sailing with 2 sails then is a great experience - exhilaratingto say the least. Kour kayaks are Eddyline Fathoms. We have fitted both rudder and sails. Previously had perception essence kayaks.
Douglas WilcoxHi Paul keeping the sails up when rafted up is not a good idea. The masts are not designed for that load and you risk bending a mast or worse, breaking your deck. I guess I have paddled sailed a bit more than you and regularly so in much stronger winds...See More
Paul Edmondsonwe have had flat earth sails for 3 years, initially sailing in the Lake District and then on the Solway, crossing morecambe bay and numerous times at Walney, around Scotland's west coast , including Bute, Arran, Eigg, Loch Long, Loch Shiel and Arisaig.I still think rudders and having the option of rafting up are essential From a safety point of view.
Douglas WilcoxHi Paul keeping the sails up when rafted up is not a good idea. The masts are not designed for that load and you risk bending a mast or worse, breaking your deck.
I guess I have paddled sailed a bit more than you and regularly so in much stronger winds. I have never bent a mast or even come anywhere near it. You cannot paddle when rafted up so you slow down and the wind is exerting more force on the mast. Rafted up you cannot use the paddle or edging to steer (I guess the rudder does work when rafted up but of course you are only going downwind and as I said above the rudder's main limitation when paddle sailing is going upwind).
Steering with the paddle and edging are both essential kayak skills and it would be worth learning to control your kayaks with no rudder, what if the thing breaks in mid channel? The trick in strong wind down wind sailing is to paddle fast, use every wave to get on the plane. Increase your speed as much as possible and that reduces the apparent wind and force on the rig.
Eddyline are great kayaks, I have enjoyed paddling a Fathom very much, I hope you enjoy them on many adventures.
With more experience you will become less dependent on the rudder and curse the damn things as much as I do (I used to paddle several ruddered kayaks and still do! Some kayaks with little rocker like the Tarans suit a rudder but the Fathom is a highly rockered boat that turns easily on edge, a rudder is not really necessary for general paddling, never mind paddle sailing.)
Please excuse the long answers but I think it is important for those thinking of taking up paddle sailing to realise that paddle skills and not rudders are essential to learning to paddle sail (as my example of my friend Tony (above) clearly illustrates). Best wishes, Douglas.
Paul Edmondsonwe have had flat earth sails for 3 years, initially sailing in the Lake District and then on the Solway, crossing morecambe bay and numerous times at Walney, around Scotland's west coast , including Bute, Arran, Eigg, Loch Long, Loch Shiel and Arisaig.I still think rudders and having the option of rafting up are essential From a safety point of view.
Alan HunterTo be honest I'm not sure which one mine is , it looks like yours Douglas but I'm guessing it's the previous material . Kari Tek delivered last week .
Douglas WilcoxHi Alan your one will be the Code Zero mylar/dacron bilaminate. You will like it a lot, it's the one I have been using for the last 3 years,
Douglas WilcoxJimmy the new Trade Wind is mylar/carbon_kevlar scrim/mylar trilaminate. It's what they make windsurfing wave sails from so it's real tough.
Douglas WilcoxHi Jimmy I have a North trilaminate 5.0 wave sail that has seen 11 seasons hard use with absolutely no signs of delamination. As part of testing this particular laminate used by Flat Earth was left outdoors for all of this last Australian summer with no signs of UK damage. That's probably equivalent to several decades of Scottish summers!
Jimmy JohnstoneUV damage I take it you mean. That is not what causes delamination so such static testing is not valid. The delamination in top end dinghy race sails ....identical material...comes from them being used. Flapping in wind. Put up and down. Fully battened sails such as windsurf ones give more protection to the cloth. These kayak sails are not battened. If used extensively over two years they will deteriorate.
Douglas WilcoxHi Jimmy I was not implying that UV damage caused delamination. When mylar monofilm was first introduced it did suffer from UV damage and became brittle a separate issue. The sails that were left outdoors in Australia were free to flap so it was a test of both UV stability and movement of the cloth. As you say time will tell, but the cost of one of these sails is relatively small, less than £200 so if used extensively over two years works out not very much per outing My current mylar/dacron bilaminate kakak sail has been used over 200 times and is still good with no signs of delamination.
Lovely new sail from Flat Earth; I like the cloth pattern. I have one of the older Code Zero ones (same as your blue edged one) but without the window. I like how you describe "motoring" and mine did that too, however I was not very fond of the noise and I did modify it to make it quiet. On the water is a place that I value silence and the flutter of the leech did disturb me. I am also designing a new sail now to suit my needs better (I mount mine differently than yours) and SeaDog will manufacture it for me. The new materials keep the shape better and at the same time make an aesthetically stunning sail, in my opinion. PS I love your disclaimer :-) I no longer receive "free loans" from FEKS since I purchased the SeaDog sail...
Hi Gnarly I had the Trade Wind out of the bay yesterday into open water where there was a steady F4 and no motoring :o)
With regard to the demo sails, I lend them or pass them free on to other people when I am finished testing them. I then buy my own. You will note that my Code Zero carries Karitek branding as that is where I bought it (though I did have a demo FEKS Code Zero). That way I support Mick, I support Karitek and let other people have a decent try of paddle sailing. In my current series of winter paddling blogs you will note that my friend Ian is using a blue FEKS demo sail which I lent him, he is now going to buy one himself. That blue sail is now lent to Steve at Glenuig Inn (who was very impressed by how fast I disappeared on our eclipse paddle!) I discussed this with Mick who seemed very pleased with this approach. So far everyone I have lent a demo sail to has bought one. Just in the group of people I regularly paddle with, 13 out of 14 now have sails and I am working on the 14th but he has a very lightweight Taran 18 which will require some deck modification.:o)
I very much look forward to seeing your new design, you have a knack of coming up with original ideas.
I wish I could lend my sails to interested paddlers but not many are interested in drilling holes into their kayak decks to mount the required fittings just to try out a sail that they might not like after all. Occasionally they borrow one of my kayaks that has a sail mount already fitted. Lending them my Greenland paddles is however much easier, no mods required :-) I see in the pictures on this post that you are NOT using a Greenland paddle after all. The image on the UKRGB made it look like you were indeed clutching one of those controversial "sticks" :-)
Hi Gnarly, there are now so many people with Flat Earth sails over here that quite a few second hand boats are coming on the market with deck fittings for sails. I am indeed using a GP in some of my photos, currently the excellent Black Light manufactured by Lettmann. I have actually been using GP's since 2004 and I have even made one from WRC. I would use them more but I dislike the washer person hands you get due to the lack of drip rings :o)
Hi Douglas I see you have started cross posting your blog on Facebook groups. There are some interesting comments being made there which will soon be lost as your post works its way down into the depths of Facebook. May I suggest you copy them here so that they stay with the blog article?
In particular there is a series of posts from Paul who has been "caught out" on some open crossings and is advocating rafting up and letting the wind blow you wherever. Goodness knows what would have happened to them if the wind had been blowing them the wrong way. You made some very polite and sensible replies which I think should be here. The problem with Facebook is that it is easy for anyone to present something as accepted practice, even if they have little experience.
I'm looking at getting a Flat Earth Sail for use on my two boats, a Skim Braveheart (Xcite copy) and a Gemini SP. My immediate thought was the Trade Wind .8, but do you think this will be too big for the 15ft Gemini and would I be better off getting the Trade Wind .7? Thank you in advance for any advice.
Hello Steve, I have never paddle sailed a Braveheart but I did paddle sail my Alaw Bach upon which the Excite is based! It paddle sails very well indeed with the 0.8sqm sail. I have paddled a Gemini but not with a sail. The Gemini is very similar to the Aries 155 I paddle sail and again the 0.8sqm is the best size. The Gemini should be really great downwind but it won't point quite so high as the Braveheart.
Hi Douglas I`ve just ordered a Taran 18 and want to get Mike to reinforce the deck to take the fittings for a Flatearth. He wants exact measurements as to place of mast foot and stays etc. Have you got that for an 18? I`ve been using a .8 on my tiderace xplore for the last few years. Thinking about getting the 1sqm to go on the taran - thoughts? cheers Ben
Hi Douglas, I hope you don't mind me asking for some advice, I am just about to fit a Flat Earth sail to a Rockpool Tarantella. The sail I have is the new style Trade Wind, and due to lack of availability of the 0.8m size I have gone for the 1.0 m one.. Having read your article on fitting to a Taran, I was going to put the mast foot 45cm in front of the fore hatch, but if I do this it will leave the tip of the mast quite a long way behind the front of the cockpit. I would like to move it a fair way forward, but as you know the Tarantella is very narrow towards the bow, with that in mind, I was going to use 4 stays with the front two in line with the mast and the aft two comming back a fair way. Do you think this is likely to work ok, firstly from the point of view of its affect on sailing performance, and secondly with the true side stays being at such a narrow point on the bow, to cleat the cockpit I will have to mount the mast foot 85cm from the centre of the front hatch, which is only about 45 cm from the bow. The alternative is to go along with your fitting point and accept the tip of the mast being nearly 40 mm down the side of the cockpit, which I would like to try and avoid if possible. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Best wishes James
Hi James, I think that will mount the sail too far forward for the boat to paddle sail in a balanced neutral way, especially with the larger sail. Rockpool decks are very thin and it will need reinforced. That is why we mounted the sail where we did on the Taran 16, jut in front of the round hatch where the deck is strong due to the 3d shape (we still reinforced it underneath). 40mm down the side of the cockpit is nothing, we all have at least that overlap mostly much more. It is easier to stow the sail in rough weather. I have not tried to fit a sail that far forward on a Tarantella but I did fit one to a Quest that far forward, it paddle sailed like a dog, always needing correcting strokes to keep it straight. You need to give the mast as much support as possible (especially with the bigger sail) and that means side stays at right angles to the mast foot with respect to the centre line. Both the Quest and The Taran 16/ tarantella are far too narrow up forward. I wish you much fun!
Hi Douglas, thanks for your reply, and sorry for taking so long to respond, I have been in France. Luckily I have not drilled any holes yet, so will revert to the 45cm in front of the fore hatch.The deck has already been suitably reinforced by Mike at Rockpool.I plan to mount the mast foot on a shaped wooden base plate, to spread the load a bit, with bolts through the deck, for the side stays, I was going to make 3mm Dynema loops through holes in the seam, retained with knots through washers, the whole lot sealed with either Sickaflex or epoxy putty (which do you think is best?). Thanks again for taking the time to respond,any other advice you have would be gratefully received. Your blog is a wonderful source of both information and inspiration. James
Thank you James :o) Using loops is a very neat way of securing the side stays. I usually use epoxy putty. One thing to note is that you need to use A4 marine grade stainless steel washers as sea water will get in through the Dynema loops and keep the washer damp.
Lovely new sail from Flat Earth; I like the cloth pattern.
ReplyDeleteI have one of the older Code Zero ones (same as your blue edged one) but without the window.
I like how you describe "motoring" and mine did that too, however I was not very fond of the noise and I did modify it to make it quiet. On the water is a place that I value silence and the flutter of the leech did disturb me.
I am also designing a new sail now to suit my needs better (I mount mine differently than yours) and SeaDog will manufacture it for me. The new materials keep the shape better and at the same time make an aesthetically stunning sail, in my opinion.
PS I love your disclaimer :-) I no longer receive "free loans" from FEKS since I purchased the SeaDog sail...
Hi Gnarly I had the Trade Wind out of the bay yesterday into open water where there was a steady F4 and no motoring :o)
DeleteWith regard to the demo sails, I lend them or pass them free on to other people when I am finished testing them. I then buy my own. You will note that my Code Zero carries Karitek branding as that is where I bought it (though I did have a demo FEKS Code Zero). That way I support Mick, I support Karitek and let other people have a decent try of paddle sailing. In my current series of winter paddling blogs you will note that my friend Ian is using a blue FEKS demo sail which I lent him, he is now going to buy one himself. That blue sail is now lent to Steve at Glenuig Inn (who was very impressed by how fast I disappeared on our eclipse paddle!) I discussed this with Mick who seemed very pleased with this approach. So far everyone I have lent a demo sail to has bought one. Just in the group of people I regularly paddle with, 13 out of 14 now have sails and I am working on the 14th but he has a very lightweight Taran 18 which will require some deck modification.:o)
I very much look forward to seeing your new design, you have a knack of coming up with original ideas.
I wish I could lend my sails to interested paddlers but not many are interested in drilling holes into their kayak decks to mount the required fittings just to try out a sail that they might not like after all. Occasionally they borrow one of my kayaks that has a sail mount already fitted. Lending them my Greenland paddles is however much easier, no mods required :-)
DeleteI see in the pictures on this post that you are NOT using a Greenland paddle after all. The image on the UKRGB made it look like you were indeed clutching one of those controversial "sticks" :-)
Hi Gnarly, there are now so many people with Flat Earth sails over here that quite a few second hand boats are coming on the market with deck fittings for sails. I am indeed using a GP in some of my photos, currently the excellent Black Light manufactured by Lettmann. I have actually been using GP's since 2004 and I have even made one from WRC. I would use them more but I dislike the washer person hands you get due to the lack of drip rings :o)
DeleteHi Douglas I see you have started cross posting your blog on Facebook groups. There are some interesting comments being made there which will soon be lost as your post works its way down into the depths of Facebook. May I suggest you copy them here so that they stay with the blog article?
ReplyDeleteIn particular there is a series of posts from Paul who has been "caught out" on some open crossings and is advocating rafting up and letting the wind blow you wherever. Goodness knows what would have happened to them if the wind had been blowing them the wrong way. You made some very polite and sensible replies which I think should be here. The problem with Facebook is that it is easy for anyone to present something as accepted practice, even if they have little experience.
Cheers Mike.
Hi Mike sorry for delay in replying. That is an excellent suggestion I will get onto it. :o)
DeleteHi Douglas,
ReplyDeleteI'm looking at getting a Flat Earth Sail for use on my two boats, a Skim Braveheart (Xcite copy) and a Gemini SP. My immediate thought was the Trade Wind .8, but do you think this will be too big for the 15ft Gemini and would I be better off getting the Trade Wind .7?
Thank you in advance for any advice.
Regards
Steve
Hello Steve, I have never paddle sailed a Braveheart but I did paddle sail my Alaw Bach upon which the Excite is based! It paddle sails very well indeed with the 0.8sqm sail. I have paddled a Gemini but not with a sail. The Gemini is very similar to the Aries 155 I paddle sail and again the 0.8sqm is the best size. The Gemini should be really great downwind but it won't point quite so high as the Braveheart.
DeleteI hope that helps. :o)
Hi Douglas
ReplyDeleteI`ve just ordered a Taran 18 and want to get Mike to reinforce the deck to take the fittings for a Flatearth. He wants exact measurements as to place of mast foot and stays etc. Have you got that for an 18?
I`ve been using a .8 on my tiderace xplore for the last few years. Thinking about getting the 1sqm to go on the taran - thoughts?
cheers
Ben
Hi Douglas, I hope you don't mind me asking for some advice, I am just about to fit a Flat Earth sail to a Rockpool Tarantella. The sail I have is the new style Trade Wind, and due to lack of availability of the 0.8m size I have gone for the 1.0 m one.. Having read your article on fitting to a Taran, I was going to put the mast foot 45cm in front of the fore hatch, but if I do this it will leave the tip of the mast quite a long way behind the front of the cockpit. I would like to move it a fair way forward, but as you know the Tarantella is very narrow towards the bow, with that in mind, I was going to use 4 stays with the front two in line with the mast and the aft two comming back a fair way. Do you think this is likely to work ok, firstly from the point of view of its affect on sailing performance, and secondly with the true side stays being at such a narrow point on the bow, to cleat the cockpit I will have to mount the mast foot 85cm from the centre of the front hatch, which is only about 45 cm from the bow. The alternative is to go along with your fitting point and accept the tip of the mast being nearly 40 mm down the side of the cockpit, which I would like to try and avoid if possible. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes James
Hi James, I think that will mount the sail too far forward for the boat to paddle sail in a balanced neutral way, especially with the larger sail. Rockpool decks are very thin and it will need reinforced. That is why we mounted the sail where we did on the Taran 16, jut in front of the round hatch where the deck is strong due to the 3d shape (we still reinforced it underneath). 40mm down the side of the cockpit is nothing, we all have at least that overlap mostly much more. It is easier to stow the sail in rough weather. I have not tried to fit a sail that far forward on a Tarantella but I did fit one to a Quest that far forward, it paddle sailed like a dog, always needing correcting strokes to keep it straight. You need to give the mast as much support as possible (especially with the bigger sail) and that means side stays at right angles to the mast foot with respect to the centre line. Both the Quest and The Taran 16/ tarantella are far too narrow up forward. I wish you much fun!
ReplyDeleteHi Douglas, thanks for your reply, and sorry for taking so long to respond, I have been in France. Luckily I have not drilled any holes yet, so will revert to the 45cm in front of the fore hatch.The deck has already been suitably reinforced by Mike at Rockpool.I plan to mount the mast foot on a shaped wooden base plate, to spread the load a bit, with bolts through the deck, for the side stays, I was going to make 3mm Dynema loops through holes in the seam, retained with knots through washers, the whole lot sealed with either Sickaflex or epoxy putty (which do you think is best?). Thanks again for taking the time to respond,any other advice you have would be gratefully received. Your blog is a wonderful source of both information and inspiration.
DeleteJames
Thank you James :o) Using loops is a very neat way of securing the side stays. I usually use epoxy putty. One thing to note is that you need to use A4 marine grade stainless steel washers as sea water will get in through the Dynema loops and keep the washer damp.
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